On being humble: If you have passed through what I have passed through,
you will even be more humble than I am.
I have
good health, and God shows me what I would have been in terms of sickness and
death; it humbles me, and I want to use my good health for him.
At times, God
shows me how people are suffering and the thought that it could have been me
keeps me humble. For instance, if I did anything wrong during this interview,
when you may have left, God will caution me. If I am not humble, I will be out
of track. If I was not in the house of God, I would be one of the touts in the
motor parks.
On his ministry being seemingly more popular outside Nigeria than in
Nigeria: I want to
offer the same prayer for you: that God should make you more popular outside
your country than in your country.
Let other
countries introduce you to your country. I think that is better. As it is
written in the Bible, a prophet has no honour in his country. I am not an
evangelist or a pastor, I am a prophet. It is the word prophet that was used in
that scriptural passage, not evangelist or so. If my people had understood the
work from the beginning, it could have affected the glory of God in my life
today. If people understand your vision from the beginning, you may not go far.
It is better they don’t, they will understand later, and by then, you would
have been very strong and God would have strengthened your desire. Praises and
adoration can make you a local champion.
Where are
the people that Nigerians praised from the beginning? I can mention some – even
men of God, who are no longer living today, so many founders – CAC, Cherubim
and Seraphim, Church of the Lord and so on. We should get this understanding
that those who were local champions in the past did not reach international
recognition.
Look
beyond the ministry job to the secular world, was it Nigeria that introduced
Prof. Wole Soyinka to the world? But when he became a Nobel Laureate, he became
more powerful; when he talks, everyone wants to listen. Whereas there were some
other local champions that even when they were dying, nobody took their news to
CNN. They don’t know them.
God has a
way of raising people by throwing the image to the international community.
Even the footballers that are notable became acceptable to Nigerians when they
belong to international clubs. I may not be accepted by some people in Nigeria
but my acceptance in the world has been announcing me to my world. When you
look at the people working with me, you see that the ratio of Nigerians working
with me are not more than 10 per cent.
On special attraction that brings heads of government to
synagogue: You have
said it all, where there is demand, there is supply, and in that place, there
would be enough anointing to do the work. God will not allow people to go to a
place where there is no supply. It is not possible. I observe that if three
chairs are added to this church today, you suddenly find people filling it and
if four are removed, it is just the number of people that will fill the chairs
that will come.
I have
studied that from the beginning. Sometimes, when I see some ministries printing
handbills, using signboards to advertise the church, I say those things are not
necessary. God is the one inviting people, if you allow him to do it, the
solution to their problems will be waiting for them. But if you take it upon
yourself to do the advertisement, people that God is not expecting will come
along with them and there will be crisis and trouble.
You just
continue doing your work and leave the advert for God, then those that God
didn’t invite will not come and there will be peace and tranquillity. You
should not go out to start saying ‘I can heal, I can deliver.’ At synagogue,
our critics are our advertisement. They are people that don’t want to hear
about us. They tell other people that ‘that church is devilish;’ unknowingly,
some of the people they tell get inquisitive and they will want to come here
and see what a devil looks like since they haven’t seen one before.
God has
been using this as advertisement for us. Ninety per cent of people who come
here do so in the bid to come and verify what they had heard about this church.
When some of them get here, they will sit at the back, fearing that they could
be hurt. Some put on dark glasses or disguise in a way that will not allow
people that know them to recognise them. But before the service is over, some
of them will pick up their bags and move to the front seats. They eventually
become my prayer warriors.
Let me
tell you something that amazes me and that I always thank God for – those who
are with me are more than those that are against me. They keep supporting me
all over the world. I have more, more, more people around the world. Whenever I
say this, tears flow from my eyes (sobs
for a while). These are tears of joy. I get so sad when I hear people’s
confession when their eyes become open to what God is doing here. Some say, “I
wish I had known this, my mum would not have died. She asked me to bring her
here but because of what I was hearing about this place, I refused until she
died. I hope that she will forgive me.”
On President Goodluck Jonathan’s involvement: When it
comes to relationship, I think he would be in the best position to answer that
question. Since what we are doing is creating impact around the world, you
should expect Nigeria’s president to also be part of it. We are praying for the
nation and being a Christian acknowledges it.
If
Jonathan had been here, it would have been shown on our Emmanuel Television
network. No president has ever visited this place in secret. The Bible says
that if you confess me before men, I will confess you before my father in
heaven. I am not a witch doctor; we have nothing to hide. If you have not read
in the newspapers that your president came here, then that is that.
Anytime
presidents of other countries come here, Jonathan is usually aware. If he
doesn’t believe in what we are doing, he would have told them that we
constitute security risks.
On “instructing” the nation: I say it on the television and all over the world. I
accept that is not enough; it is better to see him one on one.
But what
is the essence of a President’s visit if he won’t follow what I will tell him?
This kind of trend keeps staining my name. I will not mention anybody, when
they leave here; they do not obey the instructions.
What are presidents looking for in the church: The reason
why people visit a man of God is to receive instructions, his opinion about
them or their country. But if they don’t follow it, yet the whole world knows
that they are close to TB Joshua, it has no benefit.
It is no
big deal. Except they obey the counsel given to them, it has no benefit. It is
not something to be proud of. At least, seven presidents have visited this
place since inception. But each time presidents come to this place, I get query
from God. When they come around, you won’t have time to attend to other people.
They will block the road with their security and at the end of the day, they
won’t do what you advise them to do.
On allegations that his generosity is what woos people to the
church: How much
will I give to the president of a nation to come here? Even when they come, I
don’t get any financial gain but I incur cost because I want to ensure that they
are well cared for. That is all; I even prefer to spend my time with the poor
than to be with the presidents.
If a
president visits this place today, the whole of the day will be devoted to that
visit, I would have lesser time for the poor people, who need my attention. God
has been warning me over this trend so much that when some presidents said that
they wanted to visit me, I said no. I said it would be better for me to visit
them in their countries. Each time they visit this place, I receive query from
God because of my time that should have been used to attend to the poor and the
needy that are waiting for me.
One soul
is not superior to the other, why should I continue to receive query? Really
out of three presidents that may visit, there will hardly be one that will show
good example of the counsel that they received from me. If the needy are more
receptive to God, it is better to give them more of my time.
Why he still asks people to display the items given to them live on
camera: We do so
to encourage other people to do likewise. Some of them are
physically-challenged or indigent people who do not even have bank accounts, so
we have to give them cash. We don’t want them to be duped, but we don’t do that
often anymore.
It is not
a deliberate advertising.
Every man
of God has his own habit. Habit is a gift from God. Like Daniel, whenever he
wants to pray, he will open his window, that is his habit. The disciples of
Jesus prayed six times a day; that is their habit. It is not that we are
showing off. When people see what we are doing, they learn how to be good
givers.
If you do
everything privately, what will people write about? Jesus fed the 5,000 people
in the open, not in secret. That is why it could be written. When the tax
collectors came to him, he did not hide to say, ‘I don’t want them to see that
they want to collect money from me.’ Even when he healed a man and they asked
him how he did it, he asked them to go and ask the healed man.
On how God speaks to him: Faith must first be in the heart before there could
be an accepted confession. That means faith must first be in the heart before
there could be an acceptance of prayer, request, talk from God. Faith is of
man’s heart, which is spirit. Heart literarily means a different thing from the
spirit. You use your faith to put a demand.
I use my
faith to place a demand. You don’t understand what I am saying. Let me put it
this way, faith is a channel through which the anointing flows. That means you
use your faith to put a demand and ask for whatever you want. If there is faith
in your heart, you can close your eyes and make a demand that you want to know
what is happening around the world and before you know it, you will see the
vision.
There is
what you call a measure of faith – deep, deeper, deepest faith. I don’t know
which level you belong. Faith grows as we hear the word and obey it. We are not
all at the same level, but all things are possible to him that believes. What
is possible for you may not be possible for me.
On people believing he is not a follower of Jesus Christ, but a member
of some other sect: We don’t get power, it is faith we have. The power
in our life is released by faith through our mouth. The issue of getting power
is wrong. We don’t talk about getting power here. If you don’t have faith,
power will remain dormant. In Mark, Jesus said this kind won’t be possible but
by prayer and fasting. The disciples had power but lacked faith to release it.
Nigerians
cannot tell me who I am. The percentage of my people around the world is more
than those in Nigeria. I am celebrated around the world. Go on the internet,
Emmanuel TV is the most watched. Forget about anybody, I don’t need to promote
myself. Even Jesus could not win everybody’s soul.
The word
Christian is a title. How do you know that those people talking believe in
Jesus Christ when Christianity is a matter of the heart?
That is
what I am correcting you about; that someone said he is a Christian doesn’t
mean he is. If somebody says he belongs to this or that fellowship, only God knows.
It is not about confessing that I am a prophet, a pastor, only God knows who is
serving him. A mango tree cannot bear coconut. What you believe radiates around
you. I’m more than that kind of confession. If anyone doesn’t believe me, they
would when the time comes.
Christianity
is not an association. Let us talk about Christianity. I don’t celebrate
religion. I am a follower of Jesus; I am a Christian, that is all I know. I
will invite you to come and worship here this Sunday. I am known by my love, not
by my association, so whether Pentecostal, Catholic, Charismatic, Methodist,
who is serving God? I don’t judge people but people can judge me. All I know is
that my persecution has been a blessing; I have been tamed by it. It has
strengthened me. I am a Charismatic.
I have
told you about faith. You know that Elijah anointed Elisha, but can you tell me
who anointed Elijah? So you see God can choose to do it the way He wants.
Because I don’t want to hurt you, I don’t know which circle you belong to,
maybe your own pastor was anointed by a man.
On Jim Iyke: Oh please, don’t drag me into that. All I can say is
that if a person needs to see a doctor, he should be free to do so. I like the
young man. He has been defending himself on the internet. Is he not enjoying a
better life now? Are things not working for him?
On his family members: I don’t expose my family. I hear people saying that
I don’t have a wife and that I have no child. That is the news everywhere. You
have seen my wife, and this is a photograph of my daughter.
My wife is
a very wonderful woman. She believes in receiving her own call. She does not
just want to hold microphone because her husband is a pastor.
Men of God
need to take care of their children. My daughter studied Law she is doing her
PhD in Harvard and she is coming back home to preach the gospel. She loves to
preach.
On his looks and if his wife is responsible: I love to
look good, too; it is 50-50 anyway. She has been a great woman to me. She has
been a great source of encouragement in the midst of my challenges. She is
different in the sense that she said I was the one God called, so she is
waiting until she is called by God to be a pastor. That is unlike what most men
of God do, they believe that once they are called, their wives must be pastors
too.
On when he is going to buy his own private jet: When one
is at the airport to catch a flight, you see that many have become like Molue. They could disappoint you by
saying the flight has been cancelled. Even when you eventually get on board,
people keep thronging you for one reason or the other. The person serving you
the meal may be someone that needs deliverance, by giving you food, she will
deliver you.
There was
an experience I had when travelling by air for a trip of about nine hours. I
was pressed but couldn’t go and ease myself because I had to queue like other
people before I could use the restroom. Besides, I thought that some of those
people could go to the toilet immediately after I had used it in expression of
faith, so I remained glued to my seat all through the journey. That would not
have been if I was flying a private jet.
Or if you
are a man of God that snores and they see the pastor sleeping and snoring, they
will think he shouldn’t snore. Meanwhile, he is human. So a man of God should
have a private jet if the situation demands it.
If the use
is for the church, the church should buy it, own it and manage it. It should
not be bought in the pastor’s name. When he is no longer there, the jet remains
the church’s.
On what inspired him to owning a football club: It is the
desire to help people realise their dreams. There are other social platforms
that we use to help people.
Is God not too busy to talk to him about that? The same
God speaks about everything. God is aware of everything. It is all about the
faith that you have; it manifests even in small things. We need to know how
much we need God.
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